UNIX name change

Talk about Maryo and Mario :)

Moderator: SMC Team

Does the name need to be changed?

Poll ended at 03 Apr 2008 20:29

No, it's fine for now
5
14%
Yes, just a little (Secret M___ Chronicles)
3
9%
Yes, but keep S____ M_____
3
9%
Yes, completely changed
24
69%
 
Total votes : 35

UNIX name change

Postby Boder » 04 Mar 2008 11:55

http://alexandria.wiki.sourceforge.net/ ... stration15

Here is how to change the name from smclone .. or maybe fluxy you think about not using sourceforge anymore? The website isn't hosted by them and the svn isn't hosted by them ... but they do offer svn now.
Last edited by Boder on 04 Mar 2008 20:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UNIX name change

Postby freegamer » 04 Mar 2008 13:46

Before doing this, perhaps it's an appropriate time to address the issue of the name being too close to the original game and hence find a new name for the project?
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Re: UNIX name change

Postby BowserJr » 04 Mar 2008 13:59

I nominate: "The Smashing Mario-Agent vs his Clones"

http://secretmaryo.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=57 :P I love retro threads...

***I'm not exactly sure what the Mario agent is supposed to be smashing though...***
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Re: UNIX name change

Postby helios » 04 Mar 2008 19:58

freegamer wrote:it's an appropriate time to address the issue of the name being too close to the original game


At the risk of opening yet another huge thread of "Emacs Vs Vi" proportions, I'm inclined to agree. All the work to change the graphics is of limited value if the name is still so close that we're still just seen as trying to reverse engineer someone else's work. We're in a similar position to where Nintendo was when they went 3D. They needed to expand and create entirely new content, but keep the feel of the original games. They needed the new game to be enjoyable in the same way as the old ones, by being just as innovative as the original games were. They did this with Mario 64, and it became their best game to date. If we can add entirely original code and content while keeping the original style and feel we can create something the whole open source world can be proud of. We just need to show that we can (and have) created more than a pale imitation: a game that happens to be in the same style / genre, but is fun, slick, good looking and original. 8)
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Re: UNIX name change

Postby BowserJr » 04 Mar 2008 20:23

^I kind of feel the same. I keep going on about professional feel, but you hear the name and think "fan-made rip-off". It seems like a lot of effort to rebrand though...
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Re: UNIX name change

Postby Boder » 04 Mar 2008 20:24

I'm laughing out loud :lol: The whole second part of my post was actually exactly about this but I deleted it before posting because I remembered the first name change. It's a lot of work, means a new website domain has to be purchased, and would mean a lot of tedious button/website/logo updates, but I agree it has to be done eventually.

*poll added*
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Re: UNIX name change

Postby freegamer » 05 Mar 2008 01:08

The poll is flawed. I would vote for a name change but nothing specific yet - it depends on what the suggestions are. If somebody suggests an appropriate minimal replacement for Maryo or Secret Maryo then it'll get voted for. Name change - yes or no. If yes, then see what we can come up with.
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Re: UNIX name change

Postby helios » 05 Mar 2008 07:03

Boder wrote:It's a lot of work, means a new website domain has to be purchased, and would mean a lot of tedious button/website/logo updates, but I agree it has to be done eventually.


Domain purchase is fast and easy when we have a name. The main logo could use an update anyway (I've actually already fiddled around with a couple of ideas). Other than that as far as I can see it's just changing the name in the forum and the wiki (SVN's just under 'smc').

I actually really like the *sound* of Secret Maryo Chronicles, however Maryo's obviously a problem legally and the word Chronicles is very commonly misspelled, even by native English speakers. Other than that, I'd have no problem keeping it similar to the current name. I'd even be happy to help with the site graphics.

Having said that (and to start the avalanche of name suggestions :roll: ) how about "Antonio's Secret World"? Its got a common Italian name and the word "secret" in it and also to me suggests a certain amount of the Mario cartoon magic.
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Re: UNIX name change

Postby BowserJr » 05 Mar 2008 14:04

I'm slightly reluctant to change as we're just starting to get some momentum around the Secret Maryo name, especially from the Ubuntu community, although I'm sure anyone who already plays will understand the name change. The flip side is, of course, that a new name will be a chance to once again completely distance the project from past iterations, including ripped/ copied sprites with which many still associate the project. Searching Google images still brings up around half the results as "old Maryo" ( http://images.google.co.uk/images?clien ... ages&gbv=2 ). Everyone who writes about the new name will at least use current images. A new name would be a chance to start fresh and built the reputation from scratch, aided by the current fans who likely don't know/care about its shady history. It could be seen as the final part of the SMCE project.

So, for a new name: I'd like to keep the initials as SMC, to ease package transition (all the major distro packages are just called SMC anyway), but I guess dummy packages can be used if needed. It's not essential, but it may avoid confusion if at all possible.

[09:15] <spot> umm, what game is this?
[09:15] <tibbs> "Secret Maryo Chronicles"
[09:15] <tibbs> http://secretmaryo.org/
[09:16] <spot> well, without even looking at it
[09:16] <spot> "maryo"'s gotta go.
viewtopic.php?p=3917#p3917

I think that says it all really. Bearing in mind this was an instant reaction for not being included in Fedora, Maryo needs to go. This means choosing a new name for our hero. This'll be quite awkward as we've all gotten used to the fact that:
Image
is Maryo. That's just his name. Anyone who remembers the old Maryo will remember how exciting it was to have an original character to call Maryo. It'd be very strange to see him take a different name, although it seems almost inevitable now. Of course if we decide his new name doesn't begin with M, the whole image will need to be edited anyway. So, we need new names that a) sound right for the game and b) look right for the character. It's gonna' be tough...

Chronicles I love. It has a magical mysterious feeling, but it is hard to spell and probably seems strange to people reading for the first time. I think it should stay, unless we can think of something as good to replace it. Should not be World, Land, Sunshine or Galaxy. ;)

At risk of complicating things further, "Secret"" I'd also like to change for one simple reason: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=super+maryo+chronicles **WARNING: potentially dangerous links***. Did you spot my reason? I know I made it subtle. :P
So many people think the name is "Super Maryo Chronicles" (including my brother :evil: ) and if you Google Super Maryo Chronicles you get those potentially dangerous links. That's very bad for the game, and I'd like something less ambiguous. I do fear that the only way to remove this confusion is to use something that doesn't start with S...

I also agree that the logo is probably due to be redone. :wink:
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Re: UNIX name change

Postby freegamer » 05 Mar 2008 16:00

I'm slightly reluctant to change as we're just starting to get some momentum around the Secret Maryo name

All the more reason to change it sooner rather than later.

Also it's not like there'll be a void where secretmaryo.org points to. You'll have a redirect (preferrably an informative one explaining the name change) so that visitors or followers understand and endorse the new project name.

[This] is Maryo. That's just his name. Anyone who remembers the old Maryo will remember how exciting it was to have an original character to call Maryo.

No, this is a character waiting for his own identity rather than a mispelling of Mario - and now it's time to give it to him.

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Re: UNIX name change

Postby freegamer » 05 Mar 2008 16:04

I humbly suggest the name 'Molo'.
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Let's go Marco!

Postby helios » 06 Mar 2008 00:13

A quick search of male Italian names starting with "M"...

  • Manfredo - Meaning "Strength-Peace" (whatever that means)
  • Marcello - "Warlike"
  • Marco
  • Michelangelo
  • Maso - A nickname meaning (Mario's?) "Twin"

Personally my vote's with "Marco". In fact, I would go so far as to say that it is the *only* suitable name as it is the only name which is:
  • Is a common Italian name
  • Is a male name
  • Well known.
  • Is short
  • Starts with "M"
  • Ends with "O" *and*...
  • Sounds nothing like Mario.
No other name can claim all (or even most) of those.

I've also noticed that just about any combinations where you just replace words but keep the same order sound wierd and like they're bad English. (ie "Amazing Michelangelo Place"). Then I realized that really "Super Mario World" is rather wierd English, but we just grew up with it ans so are used to it. Anyway, the "Secret" part of SMC I think is fabulous. Chronicles is tricky to replace as I couldn't find many replacements other than "Stories" or "Tales", or for locations "Kingdom" or "Domain". That's why my lead suggestion is:

"Marco's Secret Kingdom".

No it's not an S M C combo, but projects change name all the time (recently Kaffeine Player -> Dragon Player). The important thing is to change things enough that we're not still having this conversation 5 releases down the track.
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Re: UNIX name change

Postby freegamer » 06 Mar 2008 02:18

Secret Marco Chronicles sounds good.

Marco's Secret Kingdom doesn't sound good (I mean, it's not his kingdom).

Marco's Secret Chronicles... hrm...

Marco's Chronicles

Chronicles of Marco

I like the name Marco.
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Re: UNIX name change

Postby Boder » 06 Mar 2008 02:21

Some (possibly) fresh ideas.

I don't think I can stomach another M__ Italian name for the character. So maybe it could not be of Italian origin, or it doesn't even have to be a name. The game could focus on the worlds rather than the character and the story could revolve around "you" and the character is what "you" look like, leaving the naming details up to your imagination.

Also, S____ Mxxx(short Italian name) is unquestionably linked to Super Mario, which I think people might not want.

I think there is some name recognition of our own, so it's all kind of tricky.

And if you change the initials then might as well have complete freedom to choose a new name?
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Re: UNIX name change

Postby Boder » 06 Mar 2008 02:28

Just thinking of ideas, I decided that it's probably good to have at least one unique name in the title to build up a trademark without being generic (like Magical Stories or Secret Tube Worlds). Name could be location, bad guy, or a special gem, etc.

Heard of "Hero of Allacrost"?
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Re: UNIX name change

Postby helios » 06 Mar 2008 02:47

Boder wrote:I don't think I can stomach another M__ Italian name for the character. Also, S____ Mxxx(short Italian name) is unquestionably linked to Super Mario, which I think people might not want.


To be honest my preference is to come up with something completely original that just fits *our* game. I think that often it's easy to get stuck feeling that anything different is never as good as what is known, which is why we still seem to be circling around "adjective short_Italian_M_name place/story word" which is what I was trying to work with. Personally I'd say the graphic style of the game is more Japanese than Italian, and that the initials don't really matter. I also suspect that it's unlikely that there will be any strong consensus on any name without limiting the choices somehow. Unfortunately none of these facts alter that the current name is on very questionable legal ground.

So it seems to me that firstly we need to answer some basic questions:

1. Does it need to be the initials SMC?
2. Does the main characters name need to start with M?
3. Do we need to stick with the "adjective short_Italian_M_name place/story word" formula?

which together should answer
4. Can we just pick a completely original name based on nothing but the game itself?

My feelings are:
1. No
2. Easier but not essential.
3. No
4. Yes.
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Re: UNIX name change

Postby Manscent » 06 Mar 2008 04:07

So Much Color
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Re: UNIX name change

Postby BowserJr » 06 Mar 2008 11:59

I like the idea of a whole new name, although that'll be easier once we have a definite, well defined story. We may want to change the name again after we get a story. :shock:

I agree that there's no reason to go for something Italian, and if we want Japanese sounding names, how about
ムクダィ (Mukudai)
Just throwing up ideas, but
  • begins with M
  • Sounds Japanese (but I don't think it's a real Japanese name)
  • Muku means "to peel", which goes well with new fruity powerups
  • kuda means pipe
  • kudamono means fruits (where mono means things, so kuda implies fruity)
  • The i on the end just to make it sound better
As I say, I'm just throwing it up. I've been thinking about it far to long to know how it sounds, so I'll leave that to you.

AND! we can do the thing Nintendo do where they write the Japanese game name below the logo. It will look awesome! ( http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/r8pj/img/ ... 00-600.jpg )
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Re: UNIX name change

Postby Tester » 06 Mar 2008 12:30

And Secret Milo Chronicles ?
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Re: UNIX name change

Postby Manscent » 06 Mar 2008 20:51

Keeping the Acronym SMC:
So Much Color
Such Magnificent Colors! (my favorite)
So Many Colors

New Names:
The Selcouth Chronicles: Fluxy (I really like this one too)
(selcouth means strange, unusual, marvelous) ( by making the main title The Selcouth Chronicles and Fluxy as the subtitle, future games could be "The Selcouth Chronicles" but have different characters)
Fluxy Will Defeat Growler
Please Fluxy, save SuperAwesomeHappyTime Forest
Run n' jump Revolution
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